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WoW ForeverClassic against Forever

Rogue talent changes

Forever gives the Rogue 53 talents. 9 are new, 33 changed and 11 work as they did in Classic. 7 Classic talents aren't in the trees.

Assassination

2 new, 12 changed

New in Forever

  • MutilateRow 5, 1 rank

    Instantly attacks with both weapons for 75% weapon damage plus an additional 17.25 with each weapon. Damage increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 Combo Points.

  • VenomRow 7, 1 rank

    Finishing move that increases the damage of your Poisons by 30% and your chance to apply Poisons by 10%. Lasts longer per combo point: 1 point : 9 seconds 2 points: 12 seconds 3 points: 15 seconds 4 points: 18 seconds 5 points: 21 seconds

Changed

  • Improved GougeRow 1, 3 ranks
    • Moved from Combat (row 1) to Assassination (row 1)
  • Remorseless AttacksRow 1, 2 ranks
    Classic, rank 2/2

    After killing an opponent that yields experience or honor, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    After killing a non-trivial enemy, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.

  • MaliceRow 1, 5 ranks
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

    Forever, rank 5/5

    Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 5%.

  • MurderRow 2, 2 ranks
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Increases all damage caused against Humanoid, Giant, Beast and Dragonkin targets by 2%.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Increases all damage dealt by 4% against Humanoid and Giant targets.

  • Improved Expose ArmorRow 3, 2 ranks
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 50%.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 10, and refunds 2 Combo Points when cast with 5 Combo Points.

  • LethalityRow 3, 5 ranks
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.

    Forever, rank 5/5

    Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 20%.

  • Vile PoisonsRow 4, 5 ranks
    • Same row, column 2 in Classic, 1 now
  • Cold BloodRow 4, 1 rank
    • Row 5 in Classic, row 4 now
    Classic, rank 1/1

    When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.

    Forever, rank 1/1

    When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Eviscerate, or Mutilate by 100%.

  • Improved PoisonsRow 4, 5 ranks
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 10%.

    Forever, rank 5/5

    Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 10%, and gives Poison applications a 50% chance to not consume a charge.

  • VigorRow 5, 2 ranks
    • 1 rank in Classic, 2 now
    • Row 7 in Classic, row 5 now
  • Improved Kidney ShotRow 5, 2 ranks
    • 3 ranks in Classic, 2 now
    Classic, rank 3/3

    While affected by your Kidney Shot ability, the target receives an additional 9% damage from all sources.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Enemies Stunned by your Kidney Shot ability take 10% increased damage from your poisons and attacks.

  • Seal FateRow 6, 5 ranks
    • Same row, column 2 in Classic, 3 now
    • Needed Cold Blood first in Classic, needs nothing now

Unchanged: Ruthlessness, Improved Slice and Dice, Relentless Strikes.

Combat

2 new, 9 changed

New in Forever

  • Puncturing WoundsRow 2, 3 ranks

    Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 30% and your Mutilate by 15%, and gives Backstab a 45% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

  • Flawless ExecutionRow 4, 1 rank

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Eviscerate ability by 10.

Changed

  • Improved EviscerateRow 1, 3 ranks
    • Moved from Assassination (row 1) to Combat (row 1)
    • Ranks were 5%, 10%, 15%, now 7%, 13%, 20%
  • DeflectionRow 2, 3 ranks
    • 5 ranks in Classic, 3 now
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Increases your Parry chance by 6%.

  • PrecisionRow 2, 3 ranks
    • 5 ranks in Classic, 3 now
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Improves your chance to hit by 3%.

  • EnduranceRow 3, 2 ranks
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 1.5 min.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%.

  • Dual Wield SpecializationRow 4, 5 ranks
    • Ranks were 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, now 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%
  • Blade FlurryRow 5, 1 rank
    Classic, rank 1/1

    Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.

    Forever, rank 1/1

    Increases your melee attack speed by 20% and your melee attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.

  • Hack and SlashRow 5, 5 ranks
    • Called Sword Specialization in Classic
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Gives you a 5% chance to get an extra attack on the same target after dealing damage with your Sword.

    Forever, rank 5/5

    Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 5% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 5%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 15% of your target's armor.

  • Weapon ExpertiseRow 6, 2 ranks
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Increases your skill with Sword, Fist and Dagger weapons by 5.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%.

  • AggressionRow 6, 3 ranks
    Classic, rank 3/3

    Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.

Not in Forever's tree

  • Improved BackstabClassic row 2, 3 ranks

    Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

  • Dagger SpecializationClassic row 4, 5 ranks

    Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 5%.

  • Mace SpecializationClassic row 5, 5 ranks

    Increases your skill with Maces by 5, and gives you a 6% chance to stun your target for 3 sec with a mace.

  • Fist Weapon SpecializationClassic row 5, 5 ranks

    Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Fist Weapons by 5%.

Unchanged: Improved Sinister Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Riposte, Improved Sprint, Improved Kick, Adrenaline Rush.

Subtlety

5 new, 12 changed

New in Forever

  • Dirty TricksRow 2, 2 ranks

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.

  • Improved DistractRow 3, 2 ranks

    Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 5 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 2 levels lower.

  • QuietusRow 6, 5 ranks

    Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 10% more damage against targets below 35% health.

  • CutthroatRow 6, 5 ranks

    Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.

  • Thousand CutsRow 7, 1 rank

    When your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.

Changed

  • CamouflageRow 1, 5 ranks
    • Row 2 in Classic, row 1 now
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases your speed while stealthed by 15% and reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 5 sec.

    Forever, rank 5/5

    Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.

  • Master of DeceptionRow 1, 3 ranks
    • 5 ranks in Classic, 3 now
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4).

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher.

  • OpportunityRow 1, 2 ranks
    • 5 ranks in Classic, 2 now
    Classic, rank 5/5

    Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.

  • SetupRow 2, 3 ranks
    • Row 4 in Classic, row 2 now
    Classic, rank 3/3

    Gives you a 45% chance to add a combo point to your target after dodging their attack or fully resisting one of their spells.

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging an attack or fully resisting a spell.

  • Improved AmbushRow 2, 3 ranks
    • Row 3 in Classic, row 2 now
  • InitiativeRow 3, 3 ranks
    • Ranks were 25%, 50%, 75%, now 33%, 67%, 100%
  • Ghostly StrikeRow 3, 1 rank
    Classic, rank 1/1

    A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

    Forever, rank 1/1

    A strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

  • Heightened SensesRow 4, 2 ranks
    • Row 5 in Classic, row 4 now
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Increases your Stealth detection and reduces the chance you are hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%. More effective than Heightened Senses (Rank 1).

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%.

  • PremeditationRow 4, 1 rank
    • Row 7 in Classic, row 4 now
    • Needed Preparation first in Classic, needs nothing now
    Classic, rank 1/1

    When used, adds 2 combo points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 10 sec or the combo points are lost.

    Forever, rank 1/1

    Adds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost.

  • Serrated BladesRow 4, 3 ranks
    Classic, rank 3/3

    Causes your attacks to ignore 0 of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level.

    Forever, rank 3/3

    Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%.

  • Dirty DeedsRow 5, 2 ranks
    • Same row, column 3 in Classic, 1 now
    Classic, rank 2/2

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20.

    Forever, rank 2/2

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.

  • HemorrhageRow 5, 1 rank
    • Same row, column 4 in Classic, 3 now
    Classic, rank 1/1

    An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

    Forever, rank 1/1

    An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point.

Not in Forever's tree

  • Sleight of HandClassic row 2, 2 ranks

    Reduces the chance you are critically hit by melee and ranged attacks by 2% and increases the threat reduction of your Feint ability by 20%.

  • Improved SapClassic row 4, 3 ranks

    Gives you a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

  • DeadlinessClassic row 6, 5 ranks

    Increases your Attack Power by 10%.

Unchanged: Elusiveness, Preparation.

Forever values come from the beta client, build 1.60.1.69913. Classic values come from Classic Era, build 1.15.9.69722. Both were read through wago.tools. The overview explains how talents are matched. To try a build with these talents, open the Rogue calculator.